I respectfully request that you send information about your Military School to Octavia Jones Octavia@swissonline.ch The child involved is a 16 year old, who has travelled the world and is looking for a school where discipline is the norm.

5 August 2004

Admission to the Duke of York's Royal Military School is restricted to the sons and daughters of serving personnel of the armed services of the United Kingdom. The Duke of York's School is an institution of the British Army. That it is not a private military school in the same genre as those that exist in the United States of America. Having no knowledge of your relationship with Octavia Jones at Octavia@swissonline.ch, it is not be appropriate for me to communicate with this person. Please convey this message directly to Ms Octavia Jones yourself.

Art Cockerill

Sir/Madam, I am interested in the Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea, from where apprentices were sent to the cotton industry of Lancashire between 1815 and 1838. Only one was sent to Blackburn, as a House servant, Mary CALLAGHAN aged 13½ years of age, apprentice to Mary CALLAGHAN (mother) of Blackburn, Lancs, on 20 January 1834. We recently posted an article on the Buckley incident at Heyside in 1830 regarding the conditions and treatment of cotton apprentices there in the village of Heyside. Our latest project in this field is a definitive article on all the cotton apprentices sent to North East England. Is it possible to use the 'Weaving frame' illustration displayed on your site? We are a non-profit making concern. Full credit will be given to the artist with copyright etc. Your help would be appreciated.
Peter Goble/A.W Cockerill

I am trying to confirm whether a Major William Ebhart used to be in charge or somehow involved in the Royal Military Asylum between 1822 and 1833. It looks as though his wife Elizabeth Ebhart and son were also there in 1861. I would really appreciate it if you could give me any idea of where to find this information. Many thanks. S. Darbyshire

31 July 2005

Mrs Darbyshire, No, they are two separate places. When the RMA opened in 1803, several of the first batch of children admitted were from York Hospital. I'm sorry that I can't be of further help. I will make some enquiries re York Hosp to see if there are any extant records available at the PRO. Meanwhile, you can check the 'Army List' for the years in question to find out where Major EBHART was during those years. The Army list is a series of indexes containing the names of all officers in the British Army. It will show his Regiment, promotion dates etc. I think they were issued bi-annually. If I do discover anything, I will inform. Peter Goble

31 July 2005

Many thanks for your reply much appreciated I tried to send another email to you as I realised I had said it was Major Ebhart's wife. I should have said daughter Elizabeth (she also married an Ebhart; hence the same name) and grandson William found in the 1861 Census, which gives the Institution as the Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea South, unfortunately at present on original census it says  "W------- (I am not sure what) of Chelsea Hospital" as well as her son Frederick W. Ebhart as War Office Temporary Clerk also on same page mentions various other people who were Teacher of Music, scholars etc. I also have information saying William Ebhart was Commandant of York Hospital, Chelsea, in a family bible (I know I can get it wrong) and as I have not been able to find York Hospital, Chelsea, I hoped it could have been the RMA as it is Military in Chelsea and  the Duke of York opened it and Major Ebhart was a military man. It looks as though I have the wrong place but it was a try! Once again, thanks for your prompt reply, which is much appreciated S Darbsyhire G-g-g-g-grandaughter methinks!

31 July 2005

Mrs Darbyshire, I have transcribed the Census detail for the RMA from 1841 to 1901. I can't find a reference to the name EBHART, either in the Staff census or on the student census detail. I would be interested to know your source for mother & son being there in 1861. Errors can be made in transcribing, but a search for EB****** and **HART fail to find any persons. The details of staff at the RMA is sparse. I have gleaned a little from existing records I have seen and, so far, the name EBHART has not been discovered. There are several letter books at the National Archives, Kew, but it will require a dedicated researcher to plough through this source. If you let me know where you obtained the reference, I may be able to point you in the right direction. Peter Goble

2 August 2005

I am looking for some information on Arthur Poole, military, during the period 1902-1908. Can you help me? Don Melcolm

2 August 2008

Don, If your relative was at the RMA between 1092 & 1908, your best approach is to check WO143/80 RMA-DYRMS admissions held at the National Archives, Kew. I have yet to study this ledger. Sorry I can't be of more help. Peter

10 August 2005

Could you tell me which regiment my husband's grandfather would have been in. It says on his war record that he left the Royal Hibernian Military School to go to the East Indies or East India 22 February 1887 and returned home 13 February 1893. His real name was John Robert Wallace, but on his war record for the 1914-18 Great War he went by the name of John Wallace. We are trying to find his birth place because we can't find him on any of the British records even though he gave his birthplace as York on his war record. He wasn't born there. In the 1914 war he served in the East Yorkshire Regiment. He was in the Boor War also, but there is no mention of the regiment he was in. I would be much obliged if you could give me a guide on where to start. I have been trying to get information for eight years

B. Wallace

13 August 2005

Brenda, Sorry about the delay. I have checked the WO143/79 Boys Admissions Alphabetic 1877 to 1907 and the Admissions records from 1877  to 1898. One Wallace was admitted that fits your time frame. On the W index page 1/23, James WALLACE, born 14 Dec 1868, was discharged to his mother 22 February 1883. The Next Wallace, Thomas, was admitted in May of 1898. If you could let me know from where you obtained the reference, I may be able to point you in the right direction.

Hi! Being interested in WW11 because I lived through it in England as a boy, I scour book sales. As a result I’ve come up with a muster of great books. One you wrote concerning Jack Nissen “Winning The Radar War”. And I have I enjoyed it: actually having just finished reading it. So I had to find out more about Mr. Nissen; who from the web I’m sorry to see is no longer with us. But thanks so much for creating the book. I’ve lived here in Calgary the last 30 years. Immigrating to Canada as a boy of 18 over 40 years ago. Thanks again

Mike Coe

29 August 2005

Mike, Thanks for the note. Jack Nissen was a great fellow, scientific and creative. Like most of his generation (and mine too for that matter; we were not that far apart), he was without academic qualifications. Radar, his field, was without textbooks, so for him experience was the necessity. He made a great contribution to the development of radar devices.

Art

30 August 2005

Art, Thanks. I appreciate your reply. As a child a child in England, born in 1938, I have vivid memories of two living under the Selsdon, Surrey, skies not far from Biggin Hill Aerodrome. In fact, our house backed onto a valley down which the Luftwaffe flew to that aerodrome; also, near an Army Camp at High Wyckcom, Hants, following half our Surrey house being blown away by a Doodlebug. But I have to say that during that dreadful period of our history, they were exciting times for a young boy. What with seeing dog fights high in the sky, winging bombers, bombers towing gliders; interior doors blasted from off their hinges in our house while we were in the air raid shelter, and the shrapnel – oh my!  

Mike

30 August 2005

Mike, It was interesting to read your childhood memories of Surrey and Hants during the war years. With the dying off of the warriors, men and women, who bore the brunt of the fighting, my siblings among them, the war is gradually fading from living memory. To today's generation of young people it is already ancient history. Less significant but no less vivid memories are finding a voice. Your experiences are more graphic than mine, for even though I was in uniform and witnessed the damage, aerial combat and preparations for the Normandy invasion, I took no active part.

The nearest I got to Jack Nissen's radar technology was during a visit to Christchurch on leave with a friend whose father, also a soldier, managed the local drill hall in which radar courses were held regularly. All hell broke loose when someone's radar instruction book went missing (in 1943) and we, back in our own camp, got hauled in for questioning by the military police. The authorities were paranoid about national secrets and personnel sloppy about the manuals and course documents with which they were issued.

Art

Hi, Just found your excellent web site, very impressive! I have contacted you to see if it would be possible to obtain copies of two of the photographs used in piece about Lt DAH Nelles RNAS. I write books dealing with the RNAS Dunkerque squadrons, I have one currently in print, another undergoing the pre-publishing process with the publisher (Schiffer), and a third about half finished. I collect photographs of RNAS planes and pilots, and would like to obtain the shot of the crashed Nieuport 10 and also Nelles' portrait. I don't suppose the photograph of Nelles' interned Sopwith 1.5 Strutter referred to in the article has survived? If you are in a position to provide copies, good scans at 600dpi would be adequate. Failing that perhaps you could put me in contact with the family? Finally, congratulations again on an excellent web site. Mike Westrop

14 August 2005

Mike, Thanks for your congrats. You are free to use any of the images in the Nelles article with the usual acknowledgements. I regret that I do not have the originals. I returned them to his daughter Sandra Murray, who recently had a change of address. I might take a while finding it. She might still have an e-mail address. In any case, I'll telephone her next week to find out what she has done with the photographs. Expect to hear from me again shortly. Meanwhile, if you have not already seen it, there's another interesting mini-bio on a WWI pilot. George Cecil Gardiner, which you'll find at the URL http://www.achart.ca/york/george_gardiner.htm. He was from the Duke of York's school.

Good luck.

Art

Art, Please find enclosed selected pages from Wayper's book Mars and Minerva that covers the early years of the Corps of Army Schoolmasters – along with a copy of the inset panel from the rear cover.

I am currently drawing up a list of the museum's collection with regard to the Royal Military Asylum and Duke of York's Military School – some items I'm sure will be of interest – and will post this on in the next week.

Ian (Bailey, Curator, Museum of the Adjutant General's Corps)

23 August 2005

Ian, Thank you for mailing the passage from Wayper's Mars and Minerva headed 'The Corps of Army Schoolmasters'. Struck by his opening statement, I dropped what I was doing to read the passage in its entirety. My conclusion was 'Here we go again!' apropos the Rev. George R. Gleig. The most thoughtful response is to offer a review of the passage in detail. (See Mars and Minerva, a review.)

Neville, I came across your inquiry while searching the web for something. Regarding your request for info I'll have you contact my colleague, Peter Goble.

Peter, here's the inquiry. Do you have a lead to this schoolmaster in the register – seems a bit later than the early entries to me, but you might have something.
Art

Can anyone give me some pointers as to tracing an ancestor - John Frederick FLOOD - who in 1870 was a Schoolmaster at Bangalore (when he would have been 26 years old). I have found out from the 1861 Census that he was a "Monitor of Class" at the Royal Military Asylum at Chelsea South.

25 August 2005

Art, This is an odd one. He does not appear in the ledger, but is shown in the 1861 census. I cross-checked the census against the ledger when I compiled the report. I'll check the ledger sheets again, but I recall that Monitors were employed and, at the time, considered that this young man might have been enrolled as a monitor from civilian source and not the RMA. Will confirm when I've been through the ledger.

Peter

25 August 2005

Neville, Despite your Ancestor appearing as a Monitor at the RMA, Chelsea, he does not appear in the WO143/18 ledger (1826-1880). I have rechecked the actual ledger pages from 1848 to April 1861. There are no FLOOD admissions to the RMA during this period. If there was a shortage of suitable monitors within the school population, as with the RHMS, Monitors were advertised for and employed at the school. It is thought that employed monitors were also promoted  to Pupil Teacher/Student School teachers, and assessed for inclusion in the Army Schoolmaster training scheme at a later date

At this time, there was a school for training Army School Teachers, within the confines of The Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea, known as the Normal School. Unfortunately, there is only one ledger  WO143/52, covering the first course held at the RMA. 1847-1853. Altogether there are 18 Monitors of class named in the 1861 Census. None of these monitors had been admitted to or attended the RMA from Ages Commencing 5 years old to normal discharge at 14. he main qualification for admission to the RMA, is that a: The Boy's father must have served at least 4 years as a soldier, or the father had been a soldier and killed in action. If you have you relatives Birth Certificate, is may indicate that his father  was a soldier.

I am sorry that I can't give a more positive answer as  the information covering the training of school-masters was possibly destroyed in the 1942 fire.  If you do manage to discover any new detail, please let us know. The information regarding the Corps of Army Schoolmasters is sparse, and we are trying to construct a ledger of all we can find.

Peter Goble

Peter, Glad to receive your e-mail and to know that you got something interesting from my site. However, it looks like you have uncovered my dark secret!  First, I do not know that Dorothy Mabel is any relation of mine: I am not on her family tree (Bottle Tree 940), although it is possible that our respective trees might link somewhere in the distant past. Secondly, I do not have any authority to give you permission to quote from the book.  In fact, I did not have authority to put it on the website in the first place and no doubt the publishers will have reason to complain when they find out!

I do not know of any living close relative of Dorothy Mabel, so perhaps A. H. Stockwell (publishers of the book) might be the most likely place to get permission to quote from it? I do not even know if they are still in business. Of course, if it were up to me, I would be glad for the book to be publicised by way of extracts within your own work. As for photographs, I have only the (rather poor) black and white illustrations in the book. Most of those were taken abroad and the only ones in Britain are of children at the Garrison School, Chatham. There is one of two QASs in a rowing-boat at Malta, but they are too small and indistinct to be identifiable. However, if you are interested I could send all of them, presumably as an attachment? Your second email asked whether Edward and Margaret (Bottle) were Dorothy Mabel's grandparents: yes. If you look at my Bottle Family Tree 940 diagram, the relationships will be clearer. As you will see, it was quite an Army family, but the Bottle name seems to have died out.

If convenient, I would like to know what is the meaning of a couple of the entries in your second email:

"Admitted 09/11/1870"  "Discharge  13/03/1877". Is this the period that Henry A (son) was living at a Barracks somewhere? I believe that father Edward died in 1870 and mother Margaret remarried 1876, but your two dates might throw doubts on this.

John Bottle.

20 August 2005

John, Thanks for the contact. Re the book, I always ask permission to quote, but understand that copyright runs out after 75 years. The boy in question was admitted to the Royal Military Asylum, Chelsea, on the date shown. He was there, his parents not. His father, is known to have been deceased at the time of his admission. But if he is yours, a check with his birth cert. will confirm his parentage. The RMA was (still is under the title 'The Duke of York's School. Dover). It was established in 1803, and was for the education & care of Soldiers orphans. If you go to www.achart.ca  the history of the RMA is well covered. My site www.rhms-searcher.co.uk is mainly ledger detail.

Peter

20 August 2005

Peter, A. H. Stockwell, publishers of Ilfracombe, N. Devon, are still in business. They're a reputable publishing house. I believe they specialize in books for niche markets, and usually because the larger publishers can't be bothered – sometimes to their chagrin; think of the faux pas they made with the Harry Potter books, which Bloomsbury Press took on to their everlasting delight. As for copyright protection, you're right about the 75 years limitation although this is after the death of the writer, not the year of publication. At the same time, it's not necessary to have anyone's permission to a) quote passages each not exceeding about one hundred words, but usually less or b) paraphrase what the writer has written with clear attribution of the source i.e. this is what newspaper re-write editors do all the time that, among other things, neatly circumvents the problem of copyright permissions.

As you might know, this has happened to my own books and passages that other writers consider help support their point of view or reasoning and narrative. It's a bit complicated, but that's the essence of the international copywrite convention. As the author in question died in – what? – 1928 or thereabouts, I should think that John Bottle is free and clear in putting the account in a pdf file. I, for one, am grateful that this was brought to my attention. If we should get more information on the Queen's Army Schoolteachers, this account should come in handy for a couple of quotations.

Art

I came across your Hibs. website by accident and found it very interesting. I did some research on the school a good many years ago and met a gentleman who had been educated there. He related the story about the boys departure and the march from the Park. "The people of Chapelizod were crying at us leaving after all those years. We marched down the main road of the Park, into Parkgate Street and down the Quays, and all along the way crowds of people cheered and waved us goodbye." If you would like further information give me a shout.

Ken Devitt

15 August 2005

Ken, Thanks for your note. With regard to the attitude of the inhabitants of Chapelizod to the departure of the RHMS in 1922, the same sentiments are expressed in other eye witness accounts: see 'the lives of Hibernians' and the 'Capt. Harry Bloomer' articles. As to your offer, anything you can tell us concerning any aspect of the Hibernian school, vignettes, staff, pupils, their state and accomplishments would be welcome. Despite the lack of records and correspondence and minutes through fire loss during the London Blitz, we are gathering data and some accounts with which to construct the school's history. We welcome any information in the form of photographic images, data and personal memorabilia. I look forward to hearing from you.

Art

14 August 2005

Peter, I am writing to tell you where I got the reference about John Robert Wallace from.It was his War Records I was going to send you copy of it but thought I would send you what It states:  

Royal Hibernian Military School - there is a tick at the end of military school. His next of kin--Mother, Isabella Durkin and Step brother George Durkin. From 23 June 1885 until 21 February 1887, he was either at home or house (too faded to make out). Then on the 22 February 1887 he went to the East Indies until 9 February 1893 He must have dropped his Middle name Robert because his war record states him as John Wallace. That is all there is about the Hibernian. I have wondered if he may have had another record His service record says: Colours -- 7yrs; Reserve -- 4yrs. D-mobilisation -- 2yrs and a bit. He then rejoined for the Boer War and then to joined the 1914 - 1918 war. It is very complicated I hope you can make sense of it

Brenda.

16 August 2005

Brenda, I confess that I am at a loss. I have an image of the ledger page of W names January 1877 to 1907 and none fit the bill. I have double-checked the D image for DURKIN, in case he was admitted under his step fathers name. Nothing fits or comes close. The only conclusion is that there has been a transcription error (transferring the names from the Chronological Ledger, which was destroyed in 1942) to the Alphabetic Index. The script used for the letter W can be mis-read as F,H,M. All I can add is that I am aware of this name and will do my utmost to discover the whereabouts if it is hidden within the ledger.

There are two pointers that I can offer. If you have a medal of J. R. Wallace, the name and Regiment are stamped on the edge. Army numbers were issued in blocks to each Regiment. It is then a slow process to try and find a number plus or minus 500, from such lists at British Regiments on yahoo. I will keep Robert WALLACE in my watching file, and let you know if anything turns up.

Peter